A Motion for An Indigenous Knowledge Policy (Part 3)

The third and final part presents selected reactions to the two main speeches by the supporting MPs :

Dr Kalumba (Chiengi):

Madam Speaker, I am excited by the Motion that has been put on the Floor of the House. Indeed, some attempts at enlightening us on the challenges on indigenous knowledge have been made. I know that one of my colleagues from the ministry, although I do not know which ministry he is in now, has tried to suggest confusion, but because it was confusing, it demands clarification. It is equally important that he felt confused and, therefore, there is need for clarification. I think there are issues that might need to be clarified in terms of policy relevancy. I think this Motion is not a joke. It is actually a very serious Motion, but it requires us to think through some of the challenges that need to be addressed.

The first one I have seen is that of taxonomy. How do you classify this body of knowledge apart from other bodies of knowledge? To qualify it as indigenous, you are suggesting a particular epistemological system. There are ways of generating those ideas that may differ from other ways of generating those ideas. Therefore, we have a challenge of competent authors of indigenous knowledge and how they think in a way different from others. Do we have competent authors of indigenous knowledge who can describe how that body of knowledge was generated apart from what we may call scientific or modern knowledge? Now, if you call it indigenous knowledge, then the other knowledge must be called something else. If you said indigenous knowledge is scientific knowledge, then we have a problem. Does it follow the same way of generation? Does it have the epistemological system? Therefore, we have a challenge which I think policy makers must face. Do we have competent authors of indigenous knowledge? What my colleagues have suggested are examples of knowledge use in our traditional community such as how vegetables are preserved.

Madam Speaker, the challenge I see is how our people, in the old days, came up with the idea of preserving vegetables in a particular way. Did it suggest a method of generating knowledge of preserving vegetables that could be systematically codified? Those are the intellectual challenges we are facing. If one suggests, for example, the traditional names of trees, what system of thought in different Zambian communities is used? There will be lexicon issues and a lot of other questions that would need to be answered. Therefore, I think there is a challenge in this particular subject that we need to address.

However, I think the foreground for thinking about this are two simple concepts. The first one is to think about it in terms of body knowledge that is designed to control bodies on one hand and then a level of knowledge that is designed to control resources on the other hand. Then look at these two concepts and ask yourselves, “How, in our indigenous settings, do our people control bodies?” What are the systems of thought related to the control of bodies? Now, in modern society, we have a wide range of subjects related to the control of bodies. These are psychology, ecology, sociology, theology and many others, all designed to the question of control of bodies. Economics and physics are all designed to the control of resources.

Madam Speaker, let us think through, as policy makers, how we can tap in the knowledge base of our people at these two levels, epistemologically. How do our communities in rural areas, assuming we ring-fence them towards influence from outside, develop systems of thought that help them to control their human body, meaning communities or families? What are the ideas related to individuals, families, communities and societies? How are they arranged? That is one set of knowledge that we have to preserve.

Another set is how do our communities develop knowledge related to the control of material resources that help them to survive? I think that is a very interesting subject and we need, sometime, to think through that, but it is a serious challenge.

There is also the question of how to prove knowledge to be false in indigenous terms. We have examples and I think the two speakers have made reference to HIV. There may be knowledge which may be false knowledge. It can be proved to be wrong. This is an idea that may be wrong. How do communities that we are calling indigenous people falsify an idea? How do they prove that this knowledge is not correct? You need a whole sort of system of thought to understand that system of knowledge and how to falsify an idea.

There is a way of proving whether that is possible or not within indigenous systems. You have to think in the system of thought relevant to the subject. You cannot use modern science to falsify invisibility in indigenous terms. That is the point I would like to make. It is important that we take this idea very seriously, but what I am saying is that is there is a policy issue here which the Government needs to think through. It is non-controversial, in my view, and requires support.

Madam Speaker, the agents of change are academicians. As my hon. Colleague puts it, the Ministry of Science and Technology should be nurturing or creating nurseries of thought. We need these nurseries of thought in academic centres to be able to tap into this kind of ideas. Is it possible? How come these traditional people thought of flying in the night, in their own way? They must have some way of generating ideas about flying that we need to understand in modern terms. If you asked me, for those students who are curious, we can talk about that later.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon Hamududu (Bweenga) :

Madam Speaker, firstly, I want to state that I support this high level of debate. I am sure, our people out there are very proud of us for discussing very serious issues. These are very topical issues and I hope we will stay a little longer so that we exhaust this subject. I am one of those that supported the development of this Motion. I should have seconded it, but I was out of the country. I am, therefore, very grateful to Hon. Milupi for having taken my place.

What we are discussing here is not new. The problem with our country is that we talk, but we do not deliver. For example, South Africa is a new nation, but it has this policy already. The Indigenous Knowledge Systems Policy was adopted in November, 2004 and it was highly celebrated. It is very relevant for the economy. In this policy, we want to take the best out of the indigenous knowledge. Really, other things that you are not comfortable with will not be there are, but there are some obvious relevant issues in indigenous knowledge. I would not take the issues of witchcraft because people will not accept that.

We want to talk about useful knowledge that is important to our livelihoods and this is very obvious. People in the rural areas, for example, have a longer lifespan than those of us in town because they are more linked to the indigenous knowledge. For example, in Northern Namibia, under the apartheid regime, the indigenous people were pushed to the northern part and a red line was drawn. The southern part was a developed place for whites. These people in the northern part survived on indigenous knowledge. One of their staple foods, millet, is so nutritious that they live longer.

The former President of Namibia, Mr Sam Nyuoma’s mother died at 110 years. I think we were at the funeral with Dr Kaunda. These people, because of their linkage to indigenous knowledge, are benefiting. This indigenous knowledge is supreme. This policy is helping to put a framework to recognise, affirm, develop, promote and protect indigenous knowledge and resources. If we do not put such a policy in place, this knowledge will vanish and it is vanishing at a very fast rate. We need an indigenous knowledge policy to guide in establishing research infrastructure so that we have data bases, libraries, museums, laboratories and centres where we can, actually, house this knowledge and some of these objects so that the inferior generation can learn.

Indigenous knowledge can help us to fight poverty. For example, in the areas of food, we have lost preservation methods of food in the rural areas. That is why people are crying for relief food every time. They have enough food now, but they have lost some knowledge that is affordable to preserve food through out the year. We are all villagers here and we all know. You know how our grandparents used to preserve food.

Food preserved through indigenous knowledge is not linked to unreliable support infrastructure such as electricity. You cannot keep food in the fridge. It will rot because this power is not sustainable as we have discovered. The knowledge that our people have will preserve food for so many years. For example, we can preserve sweet potatoes and vegetables. Our old folk had methods which have been lost because of lack of a policy framework to preserve that knowledge so that people can learn how to use these for survival. In countries such as Darfur and the Democratic Republic of Congo, people live on indigenous knowledge. The San people in the south live on indigenous knowledge and they are very healthy. They are not as sickly as we, living on western knowledge, are. Those people eat pure food and they use medicines that are not toxic.

Although we call the San people bush men, they are real Bantu Speaking people. They are the original people of this area. If you call them bush men, they will kill you. The San people have a very important root called the devil’s craw and they have been using it all the years. The Germans have stolen it and are packaging it in their country. This is a valuable root because it can treat all kinds of diseases. They even make tea and other things out of this root. Right now, there is a case that the royalties of this root must go to the San people. If they win that case, the San people will benefit monetarily from their indigenous knowledge. Therefore, if we do not have a policy for this, other people will steal knowledge from us. The indigenous methods are more sustainable. Through this policy framework, we will be able to pick what is good and bad.

Madam, indeed, in indigenous knowledge, there are issues that are unacceptable and those that are obvious that can help us. In the area of medicines, I have benefited a lot from my mother. My mother never went to school, but she is a very wonderful mother from a very wealthy royal family. They had over a thousand traditional Tonga cattle. Those animals are very resistant to diseases, but there is no policy to preserve this type of cattle breed. Now, we have these hybrids that are only fit for commercial farming and they are finished by diseases. They are easily wiped by any small disease that comes. You have seen that diseases are affecting these provinces because we have lost the indigenous animal that was resistant to diseases.

Madam Speaker, I do not even know whether this is documented. We have our own maize types such as kamfwamba and gankata which are very tasty and they mature early. I am very happy that I met someone from Mount Makulu and I want to buy some of these seeds which were preserved from there. The policy framework must be put so that we regularise, support and fund these initiatives so that some of us who want to go back to what we know best can easily do so..

Madam Speaker, finally, I want to say that indigenous knowledge really helps us, as a country, to bring something on the global economic table. What has Zambia brought to the global economic table? What is our discovery? Our people were not doing anything about the copper mining we talk about before our brothers from the west came. Now, who is preserving that knowledge? Zambia can only be counted in the family of nations if it took something to that body of knowledge. Without this policy, you will be a country that is infiltrated, that never gave anything to the world’s economy and it is very dangerous if you do not have such a policy.

Madam Speaker, I want to urge the hon. Minister responsible for these issues to take a look at the South African Indigenous Knowledge Systems Policy. I have a copy and, I think, my brother, the hon. Member for Kasama has that policy as well. You should have a look at it so that you get some ideas. We need to make some movements. The museum is not funded because there is no policy framework to support it and to see the need for adequate funding. I hope when the hon. Minister or someone from the Executive comes to conclude this debate, they will take these issues very seriously. This is not a contest. It is an issue of brain storming so that we make progress as a country. You will find that Zambia is a country that talks, but does not deliver. I think we are taking things too simply. Let us get to the ground and begin to deliver. I think my brother was right when he wrote a letter of resignation to Parliament because of the failed politics. I am seeing failed politics in this country, across the board, because we are not getting down to real issues which are affecting our people.

Finally Madam Speaker, I love the diversity of our country. Bweengwa, Luapula, Eastern and North-Western provinces have each done something for this country. These are rich places and they have brought something to the national table. It is from the national table that we can take something to the international table. All our communities have done something for this country. Every region and tribe is as important as the other.

If we do not document these things, our children will not know what the people of Chienge have done for this country. Through this policy, we will know the traces of our people’s contribution to the country and the economy. Documentation is also necessary for the sustainability of our people. I, therefore, think that this policy also celebrates the knowledge of our people in diversity. The people of Western Province, like the hon. Minister seated comfortably there, also have serious knowledge on fish, which we can learn about. We can also learn how to walk on sand.

Who are we as Zambians if we do not have knowledge to bring to the table. What are we bringing to the table? I would like to urge this Government to consider this Motion seriously and not take it too lightly. I hope that there will be more people to speak on this Motion until the close of time.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Dr Chishya (Pambashe) :

Madam Speaker, I thank you for this opportunity to express an opinion in connection with the Motion on the Floor. From the onset, I am in full support of the Motion on the Floor. I would like to state that a scientific or technological idea does not come like manna from heaven, but is a result of everyday life experiences.

I do not agree with the previous speaker who said that we need to study to know what is meant by indigenous knowledge. Indigenous knowledge simply tells the originality of that knowledge and is characterised by the cultural experiences of the community.

Even the development of the so-called developed world has been based on indigenous experience. For example, a long time ago in Florida, a medical doctor had patients with symptoms of high body temperature. He asked a certain physicist for a machine which could compress water. Once the water was compressed, it lost temperature and cooled down. The medical doctor used that water to reduce the temperature of his patients. This idea was exported to the Germans, who used it to bring down the temperature of the storage sheds where they kept their meat products. This was the idea they used in bars to cool beer. This is the idea which has led to the invention of the domestic refrigerator. From this idea, we are now experiencing the cooling system here in Zambia. It is through experience and we have that experience here in Zambia.

In Zambia, we are endowed with wild fruits. We have the mpundu and masuku, for example, whose botanic names are the Parinari Curatellifolia and the Uapaka Kirkiana, respectively. Our ancestors lived on these fruits. They knew how to process them. This idea has been with Zambians ever since. This is the idea which was taken up by the National Council for Scientific Research then to come up with the masuku wine.

This is the idea which the people in agriculture took up and came up with a programme to domesticate fruit trees. It is a pity that this programme has stalled. There was a Mr Fanshall who started the flowering of trees in Zambia. He only did this with some of the trees not all. From that kind of study, a lot of things have come up. It is sad that this kind of knowledge has been going across the border. We only later come to enjoy the product. One of the products we are enjoying now is amarula.

The kind of indigenous knowledge we are talking about is no different from any other kind of adjectives you would use. You can call it scientific or technological, but it has never changed. Someone alluded to the fact that our ancestors knew how to process vegetables. Why do we process vegetables? One of the reasons is to elongate the storage life. Secondly, it is to give the three main important attributes of food, which are flavour, colour and texture. The other attribute is the nutrition. If you can keep these vegetables away from spoilage which is chemical, physical or biological, you have done your preservation. This is what our ancestors did.

When we say that we want the indigenous knowledge to go side by side with modern knowledge, all we are doing is advancing our knowledge. The advancement for everybody is based on this. Therefore, if we do not want to remain behind as Zambians, we should take this as our policy in all our developmental challenges.

I would like to commend what the Minister of Science, Technology and Vocational Training is doing by bringing all scientists together to work with Government and participate in developing this nation. When we say scientists, we do not mean only those who have been to school, but also those who naturally have scientific ideas. They know how the transformation of food from one state to another takes place. Whoever has got such ideas must come on board.

Madam Speaker, with these with words, I really support this Motion.